Did Elohim have sex with Mary (Part 2)? With Radio show!

We have been having a great time at the Mormon Temple in Mesa! We have had countless conversations. We have been creating new and healthy relationships with the LDS in attendance and we even have made a couple of connections with some of the LDS and are scheduled to meet with them off site! Praise God!

I had a very interesting discussion with one member last night---til' about 10:30pm actually. While discussing some Mormon claims he was quite bothered by the fact that we were saying that Mormonism teaches that Heavenly Father (Elohim in Mormon theology) physically had sexual relations with Mary to produce Jesus. Initially he was stating that the church has never taught such a thing. He was violently opposed to the idea and stated quite emphatically that Jesus was miraculously conceived by the "Holy Spirit". To that I heartily agreed and cheered. But, I told him that is not what the "official" teaching of the Mormon church is on the subject. This is an awful teaching that denies the Biblical teaching on the subject and logically leads us to the conclusion that (within the Mormon view) God committed incest with Mary because Mormon's teach that He first created her in the pre-existence as one of his spirit-children. Thankfully, a guy I have known for almost 12-years (Craig) who is a devout Latter-Day Saint and a friend, told him that that was in fact the teaching of both the early prophets of Mormonism as well as the modern leadership. To this he said, "well, I don't believe that. That is just speculation!"

So for the benefit of those who are witnessing to their Mormon friends about this subject I am going to reproduce some of the references I have had in dialogue with this gentleman. Remember the Biblical Teaching on the subject as you read this:

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Genesis 3:15 (Notice the promise of Messiah being the SEED of the woman--ie. the virgin birth)

Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Matthew 1:18 (KJV)

18Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit. (NASB)

18And of Jesus Christ, the birth was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit (Literal translation)

Now here is the official Mormon teaching:

If none but gods will be permitted to multiply immortal children, it follows that each God must have one or more wives. God, the Father of our spirits, became the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)

The fleshly body of Jesus required a Mother as well as a Father. Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father: we use the term lawful Wife, because it would be blasphemous in the highest degree to say that He overshadowed her or begat the Savior unlawfully. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)

Inasmuch as God was the first husband to her, it may be that He only gave her to be the wife of Joseph while in the mortal state, and that He intended after the resurrection to again take her as one of his own wives to raise up immortal spirits in eternity. (Orson Pratt, The Seer, page 158)

The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 11:268)

The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood- was begotten of his Father, as we are of our fathers. (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 8:115)

"When the Virgin Mary conceived the Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost... (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1:50-51)--- Compare this to Matthew 1:18

In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it. (Heber C. Kimball, Journal of discourses, 8:211)

'Now Remember from this time forth, and forever, hat Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject when I replied to this idea- "If the son was begotten y the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females and give the Holy Ghost o them, lest he should beget children to be palmed off on the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties."...But what do the people in Christendom, with the Bible in their hands, know but this subject? Comparatively Nothing." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1:50-51)

'What a learned idea' Jesus, our elder brother was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in heaven." (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1:50-51)

"God the Father is a perfected, glorified, holy Man, an immortal Personage. And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the son of God, and that designation means what it says."(McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 742)

"..but the Holy ghost is not the Father of Christ and when the Child was born, he was the Son of the eternal Father." (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 743)

"These name-titles all signify that our Lord is the only Son of the Father in the flesh. Each of the words is to be understood literally. Only means only, begotten means begotten, and Son means son. Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in He same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers." (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, page 546)

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.7).-- Is this Modern enough?

"Thus, God the Father became the literal father of Jesus Christ. Jesus was born of a mortal mother and an immortal father" (Gospel Principles, pg.57)

"As far as this life is concerned, [Jesus] was born of Mary and of Elohim; he came here as an offspring of that Holy Man who is literally our Father in heaven. He was born in mortality in the literal and full sense as the Son of God. He is the Son of his Father in the same sense that all mortals are the sons and daughters of their fathers" (Bruce McConkie, Mortal Messiah 1:330).

"Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily offspring; that is to say, Elohim is literally the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and also of the body in which Jesus Christ performed His mission in the flesh..." (The Articles of Faith, James Talmage, pp. 466-467)

Now the struggle we come to is that there is constant contradiction about this. On the one hand we clearly see that Mormonism teaches that Heavenly Father produced Jesus the same way we are produced. And then on the other hand Mormons try to affirm what God teaches in passages like Matthew 1:18 and Luke 1:35. Well, you can't have your cake and eat it to! This of course will also lead us to the discussion of the Mormon teaching about God having a body of "flesh and bone as tangible as man" (D&C 130:22). This is something the Lord Jesus explicitly denies (John 4:24, Luke 24:39).

I hope that helps! Thank you to all of you who are praying for us. We need your prayers and support. Bless you!


UPDATE:

I was asked by Vocab Malone of Backpack Radio to do an episode on whether or not Mormon leaders have taught that Elohim had sexual intercourse with Mary. Check-out the show and share it with your friends! We pray that it will be useful in showing the corrupt teaching of the LDS church on the subject as well as the inconsistencies prevalent. Please share!

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He is Glorious!

Jeff
Apologia